Bullying - Can we really legislate people to be kind?

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Permalink Reply by Derek Marsellus on October 17, 2012 at 8:24pm

Thank you Heather for starting this discussion.  This is such a huge topic.  One of the things in the above quote is something that is central to my home life.  My kids and I sit down every night and eat dinner together.  On the surface, it is only about 20 minutes or so, but it is extremely important and I wish more families would do it. 

I sent an email to CBC Metro Morning a few days ago after they had a discussion of the idea of the National Strategy.  I pointed out in the email that, while it is important to teach kids about bullying, it is equally important to teach them about the online world they live in, and the fact that whatever they put out there, is there forever.  They may think that what they are posting is totally innocent, but in the hands of a bully, it can be made into something hurtful.  In addition to the kids, another group needs to be educated about social media: teachers.  At the 2010 conference, we discussed the fact that, before we can use current technology in the classroom, we first need to educate the teachers, because many of them don't really understand it themselves.  Thirdly, though it is the most difficult to do, is parents.  Kids are on social media all the time, and in many cases, their parents have very little idea, if any, of what they are doing and saying.

I hope that many people bring their ideas to this forum.  The more it is talked about, the more out in the open it is.  I'm interested to know what people think of what I have said.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Robinson on October 17, 2012 at 8:43pm

Derek,

what you said about sitting down together at as a family is so important.  It's also something that we haven't be doing so much at my house lately, that's a trend that I am working on changing.  With two teenagers who have jobs it's become trickier to do the family dinner thing.

Derek Marsellus said:

Thank you Heather for starting this discussion.  This is such a huge topic.  One of the things in the above quote is something that is central to my home life.  My kids and I sit down every night and eat dinner together.  On the surface, it is only about 20 minutes or so, but it is extremely important and I wish more families would do it. 

I sent an email to CBC Metro Morning a few days ago after they had a discussion of the idea of the National Strategy.  I pointed out in the email that, while it is important to teach kids about bullying, it is equally important to teach them about the online world they live in, and the fact that whatever they put out there, is there forever.  They may think that what they are posting is totally innocent, but in the hands of a bully, it can be made into something hurtful.  In addition to the kids, another group needs to be educated about social media: teachers.  At the 2010 conference, we discussed the fact that, before we can use current technology in the classroom, we first need to educate the teachers, because many of them don't really understand it themselves.  Thirdly, though it is the most difficult to do, is parents.  Kids are on social media all the time, and in many cases, their parents have very little idea, if any, of what they are doing and saying.

I hope that many people bring their ideas to this forum.  The more it is talked about, the more out in the open it is.  I'm interested to know what people think of what I have said.

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Permalink Reply by Summer on October 17, 2012 at 8:59pm

I don't think that legislating against bullying will make it stop. There will always be people for whom making someone else's life hell is a hobby.

However, I think that there should be a way to create more of an incentive for people to report and follow through on those reports of bullying. Perhaps some may not think that bullying is on the same spectrum as child pornography, but there are dedicated police forces who deal with those online crimes, why not cyberbullying? As someone who reported being bullied as a child and saw nothing happen and who has watched her child be bullied and have nothing happen, I think that there needs to be more of an expectation of those who know what is going on.

I haven't thought it through enough to think of what the consequences should be, but I hate to hear after the fact when a child takes his or her life, how many people knew what was going on and did nothing. I think that fancy campaigns are quickly forgotten and are only tokens. Somehow there has to be consequences that stick, not necessarily punitive consequences, but something. Some level of accountability. I have had run into the school and try to get staff to help me with situations that I have seen on the playground because I know that there are supposed to be reports that are written. The response has generally been slow. I know that teachers have a lot on their plate, but if adults were in a workplace where employees were swinging at each other or verbally harrassing their coworkers, there would be some consequences. (I know this is the ideal and not always fact).

I know that I am not putting forward many concrete ideas, but I would be interested to hear what others have to say.

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Permalink Reply by Janet McCarrol on October 17, 2012 at 11:17pm

I'd like to echo the sentiments expressed in the Unicef report, we ARE leaving the kids too alone - and alone too much !   I am shocked to learn the amount of time some of my students spend in front of a screen at home; shocked to hear of a student reporting, 'my parents just bought me an i-pod or an i-pad.....when what I'd sooner hear is, 'my parents just took me to hear the symphony, or signed me up for soccer/piano/dance/art....you name it.  So many young people today isolate themselves in front of a screen believing their being 'social' and making friends when that really isn't the reality at all.  People are social beings - but we've let social media become too important and all encompassing that we're losing touch on how to really be social with other beings.  It doesn't help, I believe, when the schools are now pushing more and more technical devices in the classroom as though this is going to help students learn to work collaboratively and collectively.  

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Permalink Reply by Danielle Turpin on October 18, 2012 at 10:38am

 I have two children, a son in grade10 and a daughter in grade3.  Bullying is way worse now, and even harder to define. Young girls live in a society where they are constantly given mixed messages on how they should be. They need appear "pure and innocent", yet it is so apparent that young girls are so sexualized that the need for approval from boys is of up most important. We have a society now, where thongs and make-up and cosmetic surgery are given to young girls, there is pole dancing for kids, the clothing in the childrens departments are very inapropriatre for their age. Instead of kids playing tag, and hockey, and man hunt on the streets like we did, parents feel that if they are glued to a screen, at least we know they are safe. This is not just an issue for teachers, or just for parents. We have an epedimic of youth, (especially girls) growing up way to fast. There is a huge rise in mental health issues in young children and teens. (no surpise there). Teens now are the first generation that are growing up on technology. They don't remember a time without the internet. Most don't remember a time without FB.   We need to adjust our way of thinking accordingly. We need to have a deeper understanding of the pressures that kids have these day. Their world is very different than it was when we were kids. We all had bullies, but it wasn't so easy for them to do it.When bullies can be hide behind a user name, it is a whole other level of bullying. I think first off, that there needs to be laws against bulling. And they need to be harsh. Get these kids (bullies) while they still have time to change. There are definite and severe consequences for those who are bullied. Just ask Amanda Todds family. If the same things were happening on the street, or in the workplace, or by an adult to a child, it would be criminal. Charges can be laid and should be.

On another note. There needs to be more accountability with the social media these kids are using. FB is one of the worst. I have recently reported at least 10 FB pages. Each inticing violence towards young girls, mostly by male teens. There are page such as Kill Sluts in Dirty ways, and 12 yr old sluts, just to name a few.  These corporations are giving these kids a platform to emotionally harm themsleves and others. And they are making trillions doing so.

Education regarding these issues need to be current, so our kids have a frame of reference.  Talking about puberty and the typical bully on the playground is not enough.

And yes I agree, parents need to be more involved, especially when it comes to technology. But this is a huge issue that involves everyone, because it effects everyone.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Robinson on October 18, 2012 at 11:00am

This is a quote from another article:

"..conversations about sexuality will be key in helping both victims and bullies in the future, and adds that she'd like to see young people invited into the discussion."   http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/10/16/Hypersexualized-Kid-Culture/

 

This actually ties in with another discussion in the forums, Sex Education in Schools, http://ning.it/Qw1iLV . 

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Permalink Reply by Jacqui Strachan on October 18, 2012 at 1:18pm

Stephen Hurley has posted an interesting blog about this issue at 

http://teachingoutloud.org/2012/10/17/3980/.

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Permalink Reply by Summer on October 18, 2012 at 1:32pm

Thank you for posting that Jacqui.

I agree that there is a culture of meanness and a broad latitude of acceptance when it comes to hurting others and qualifying it with an excuse. I think there is also an immunity to the pain of others.

I hear a lot about character education, but little about the long term consequences of destroying someone else's character. Instead of tokenism, there needs to be discussions with students about the fact that behind the laughter there maybe a great deal of pain and that "just playing" can cause physical injury and that if an adult did the same thing, there could be criminal charges.

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Permalink Reply by Anelia Coppes on October 19, 2012 at 5:56am

It doesn't matter how many times we watch the video just as sad and the message to us from Amanda yes her story, but the message is, '..I need someone',  So the question to us,' why couldn't someone be Amanda's someone?'  Maybe that's it, it's not just about the programs we have in place and please don't stop the programs but we need to equip people, our young people, all of us to be the 'someone' that Amanda needed.  We want the best kids, the best students, intelligent, bright respectable leaders can we add also an awareness of others.  A message we try to teach at our house is, 'people don't care what you know until they know you care.'  

Thanks for starting the conversation Heather.  I enjoyed reading everyones comments.

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Permalink Reply by Danielle Turpin on October 19, 2012 at 8:38am

Anelia,

That was the part in the video where i actually broke down.. I was a mess. You are right, we need to encourage our kids to be that person. That calls for empathy, and I personally think we have things a bit backwards in our schools. A recent example:

My daughter was hurt at recess and I was called in to get her. When I got there she was all alone in the hallway waiting, looking pretty sad. I asked her what happened, and instead for telling me how she hurt herself, she told me she was sad because the secretary told her good friend to go back out and play, that she doesn't need to stay inside. Both the girls were upset.  Now to most , this probably isn't a big deal, but what was the lesson there? Olivia, my daughter was taught that her feelings don't matter, and that she shouldn't want or expect comfort from any one. At least at school. And her sweet friend, was taught not to bother helping, you will just be told to just leave. 

 

This seems to happen alot. Those unintentional little words or events that really do add up. We need to encourage our children to care for others, and praise them when they do.

In one of the Eastern provinces the school teaches empathy. All the students have to pick a teacher or student led project, such as learning how to knit an infant hat for preamies in the hospital, then they go and deliver them. Others would make lunches for some kids in there own school who wouldn't normally have one. They loved doing it so much that they would put a special note in each one.  Such as Have a great day! Know that we care, You are beautiful!... I just loved the idea. They wern't getting prizes for doing it, they were just doing it because they can.  

Maybe instead for having all these catch phrases, and campaigns, schools should just model what being a good friend looks like. And to encourage that always. Its weird, they have awards for the best athlete, the top marks, etc.... But they don't have any awards for being a good friend to others. In my opinion, that should be the top award.

 

Thanks everyone at P4E, I always love the intelligent conversations that we have here.

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Permalink Reply by Summer on October 19, 2012 at 8:39am

Here is a news item about bullying that just broke:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/10/19/london-bullying-arre...

I am hoping that somehow this will be held up as an example of what the long term consequences can be for this behaviour. I guess it is an answer to my frustration about there not being an answer in the law for this behaviour. I know it isn't the only solution, but perhaps it is a start.

I agree with Anelia that there needs to be "someone" for anyone who is bullied and someone who can break through the perception of the bullied individual that "no one cares."

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Permalink Reply by Heather Robinson on October 19, 2012 at 8:58am

Thanks for posting that Summer.

I see that they are being charged with criminal harassment, so I decided to see what the consequences could be if the girls are found guilty.

If a person is charged with criminal harassment, Crown Counsel (the prosecutor) makes the case against (or prosecutes) them. The prosecutor may proceed by indictment for serious cases, and then the maximum penalty is 10 years in jail. Or the prosecutor may proceed by summary conviction for less serious cases, and then the maximum penalty is either a fine or 6 months in jail, or both.

If a court finds a person guilty, it will probably order the person to obey certain conditions. For example, a court will normally order a person convicted of criminal harassment to have no contact with you directly or indirectly, to stay away from your home and workplace, and to not own or carry any weapons. A court may also order a convicted person to take counseling, if it might help.

If the court sends the person to jail and fines them, it cannot also order them to obey conditions. Usually, a court will order the person to obey conditions and either fine or jail them.

I know that I will be keeping an eye on this case to see how it plays out.

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